Japanese women dream of the USA
DIMSDRIVE performed internet-based research involving 5,274 people in September of last year to find out which country’s citizens would people most want to marry. It is not stated whether or not the people interviewed were single or not.
The Asia versus the West split is quite noticeable in the men, but really striking amongst the women. I previously translated statistics regarding international marriages in Japan that shows that the ideals being expressed here do not seem to be realised.
On a slight tangent, I watched the last episode of an NHK English learning program which features an English-speaking Western blonde angel that prods a clueless office worker along the path to success at her job getting a date with her transferred from New York colleague, the ideal tall, muscular, tanned, well-coiffured white executive. The angel’s job was done because the glaikit Misaki finally pulled her man.
Q: Other than Japanese, which country’s people do you think would be good to have as a partner (husband or wife)? (Sample size=5,274, free answer)
Rank Votes 1 USA 1,144 2 Korea 505 3 UK 442 4 Italy 370 5 France 344 6 Australia 218 7 Germany 203 8 China 197 9 Canada 150 10 Russia 120 Q: Other than Japanese, which country’s people do you think would be good to have as a partner (husband or wife)? (By sex, free answer)
Rank MaleN=2,468 Votes Rank FemaleN=2,806 Votes 1 USA 368 1 USA 776 2 Korea 297 2 UK 347 3 China 174 3 Italy 278 4 France 134 4 France 210 5 Russia 117 5 Korea 208 6 Thailand 99 6 Australia 145 7 UK 95 7 Germany 131 8 Italy 92 8 Canada 99 9= Taiwan 73 9 Switzerland 47 9= Australia 73 10 Spain 34 First, looking at the East-West split - or more accurately, perhaps, the caucasian-Asian split (I’m not aware of any black Western role-models in Japan) we see that for men, 36% of the total votes were for Western wives versus 26% for Asian women, favouring the West (I’m including Russia, with Maria Sharapova as the popular image of the country) by just over a third. However for women there is a marked difference; about 74% in total choose the West (over 40% for the USA alone) versus a mere 7.4% for the East, a massive ten to one vote for Europe and the USA.
Next, looking at the detailed age breakdown, it’s only in the teenage girls group that the USA fails to top the charts, losing out to France and Korea, and equal with the UK. For men in their twenties, American women are preferred over the second-placed Korean women by almost 60%, and the Chinese are back in fifth, gaining just over a third of the number of votes of the USA. However, the older men get, the stronger the charms of the Asian neighbours become, with the gap at its smallest being just a mere three votes. Similarly, for men in their forties and over, Chinese women cut the gap from a third to about a half of the USA score.
For women, as they get older (ignoring the over sixty bracket which has a very small sample size, so may be rather inaccurate) the attraction to American men only get stronger; in their twenties, Americans get just under a quarter of the vote, but by their fifties, it surpasses three in ten. Despite the charms of the disturbingly Harry Potter-like Bae Yong Joon Korean men do not seem to be particularly favoured by the middle-aged demographic.
These two main trends noted above are perhaps reflections on Japanese society as much as on foreign stereotypes. The younger men hold images of themselves as charming the sophisticated Western woman, but as they age (and visit dodgy hostess bars…) they come to realise that perhaps only Asian women could accept their typical Japanese behaviour. For women, after having been around Japanese men for many, many years, they too may come to realise that the Western stereotypes of politeness and chivalry are the only things that could satisty them in marriage.
Bonus points if you can name the people pictured…
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heather said,
January 8, 2006 @ 00:54
very interesting! so i (western female) have a better chance with younger japanese men than older ones?
oh wait, i HAVE a boyfriend. forget i said anything!
the statistics are interesting, but also misleading, don’t you think? since it says that ‘as they age’ their opinions change. i would say it might be more to do with shifts in culture over time?
i noticed in ireland, there is a growing dislike for US citizens amongst young people, for example. whereas, with older people or 30+ they grew up immersed in US culture, and many people still have a strong affection for it.
i could be wrong to make similiar parallels with japan.
what do you think?
Seron (Ken) said,
January 9, 2006 @ 23:49
Yes, you are probably correct there, I have worded the translation in a way that may be confusing if you look at the statistics as just a snapshot in time, but I would also suggest that there is perhaps a trend within Japan for views to change with age, as I outline in the last paragraph of the post.
I’ll see if I can come up with a better wording for the description of the trends, but I’ll leave my conclusions as is.
Jacqueline said,
March 23, 2006 @ 12:46
“I’ll see if I can come up with a better wording for the description of the trends….”
Yes, better wording would be a good idea, especially in your last paragraph. One detects a certain snideness towards Japanese men.
Kitten pictures, but not off topic » 世論 What Japan Thinks said,
March 24, 2006 @ 23:15
[…] Looking at the detailed breakdown, the American Short Hair was the most popular for all bar the over sixties women (indeed, the same women also want to keep a pet American man), and tops for men in their twenties and thirties. Other interesting kinds of cats featuring in the ratings were black cats gathering a few votes from those in their twenties, and both Somali and Himalayan cats, breeds I’ve never heard of before, getting a few followers here and there. japan, ranking, cat, russian blue, american short hair [link] […]
Houb said,
April 6, 2006 @ 20:45
Japanese women loves USA because they think that it’s the place where they dreams will come true. But when they go there, some of them understand that America is the country where to build up your own dream, you must destroy someone else dream.
Lisa_2006 said,
May 26, 2006 @ 07:17
Hi there,your particular survey on Japanese culture & their love for USA is really interesting!I think this is fairly true in America,where I meet alot of Japanese women that are married to American men!!!But I can see a bit of bais in this survey!I’m aware that this is a American website & it probably is done by an American reporter,so alot of the survey & reviews can be based on the Americans’ perspectives on Japanese culture,which is really shallow & can be seen on the surface!!!I’m from Taiwan,which is a country that young teenageteenagers teenagers have a extreme craze for Japanese culture & fashion!I think it’s because of the 50
yrs of colonization the Japanese has on Taiwan!Most people & friends I know from Taiwan,are
extremely crazy for Japanese men,culture & fashion,and maybe a little of KOrean culture as
well!They don’t give a damn about American or British culture & men at all,which is the same
thing when I talked with many friends of mine here in Japan,that their more into their own
culture & Japanese men than cassausin!!!MOst of them hold traditional Japanese values that
marrying someone other than their own race is considering a condamention & corruption towards
their race!!!Most refered to westerners & foreigners!!!So,I think this survey is really bais,
based on who reports the survey,the responses & focus would be really different!!!
I wouldn’t know how you explain that?!
Lisa said,
May 26, 2006 @ 07:20
These imformation are very bais & subjective!!!
John Wayne said,
June 7, 2006 @ 11:16
^^^^Huh?^^^
Bryant Greene said,
June 7, 2006 @ 15:33
Are there any statistics on Japanese women who would marry an African
American male?
Martin said,
June 15, 2006 @ 09:19
These statistics really reflect the extremely annoying tendancy for japanese to consider “western == USA”. When in Japan I’ve often been asked if I’m american (not “where are you from” but directly to “are you american”), which I, beeing european (swedish to be precise), find higly offensive and rude. To me it feels like being called an obese, ugly, stupid, McDonalds-bred, gun-touting, violent, loud, rude, monolinguistic, undemocratic, christian fanatic/terrorist due to the european stereotype of americans which I dare say fits reallity a lot better than the japanese dito.
Shenard said,
June 15, 2006 @ 15:19
Japanese Interracial Marriage statistics.
Japanese men marry:
Chinese 10,242
Filipinos 7,794
Koreans 5,318
Americans 156
British 65
Japanese women marry:
Koreans 2,235
Americans 1,529
Chinese 890
British 334
Filipinos 117
Source: 2003 Ministry of Health, Labor, and Welfare
Since 2003, the stats for Koreans/Japanese Women have increased while Americans/Japanese Women decreased. This could be due to the Korean Entertainment explosion in Asia & Japan.
Rodney said,
June 15, 2006 @ 15:28
Also marriage statistics in 2003:
Marriages involving Japanese women
In 2003 amounted to 712,310, the percentage of Japanese women marrying foreign men amounts to only 1.1% of the total, and the percentage marrying
Americans is at most 0.2%. So actual marriage stats vary from an unscientific poll.
a random american said,
June 18, 2006 @ 07:06
Forgive this rant everyone….this will probably be the only time I will ever post here again.
To Houb,
>>America is the country where to build up your own dream, you must destroy someone else dream.
Are you an American? I doubt that you are, as your statement is absolutely ridiculous.
I built my “dream” by paying my own way through college for 4 years and working everyday since I was 15 years old and I don’t recall destroying anything. How did you build yours friend? I would love to hear the theory behind this “opinion” of yours.
To Martin,
>>To me it feels like being called an obese, ugly, stupid, McDonalds-bred, gun-touting, violent, loud, rude, monolinguistic, undemocratic, christian fanatic/terrorist
Yeah, because that’s the profile that fits ALL Americans……
You sir are nothing more than disgusting racist.
Your remarks clearly show that you are an uneducated fool.
Also, do me a favor, could you please add a few more stereotypes next time when insulting me? I don’t think you used enough to make your point. Your statement stands as true as if I were to say all
Swedish people are creepy, diaper-fetish, porn freak Nazis. Is that statement true?
Of course not. But if everyone on Earth had your mentality it would be OK to say that when talking about someone just for the sake of speaking pure hatred. I have been to both Lund and Stockholm and I enjoyed it very much (Tivoli Gardens was great) and even if I saw people who I considered unattractive or “ugly” as you so delicately put it - I would not go on record a say those people represented the entire culture.
So, both of you go have a nice life spewing your hate and garbage to yourself in your
lonely, pathetic minds - because in reality you are living in self-loathing jealousy,
struggling with your own shortcomings and insercurities.
I have got news for you Mr. Marten High & Mighty - The so-called “superior” or “perfect” race does not exist, or at least it won’t exist until these type of prejudice walls are broken down.
I have been coming to this site for a while now and I have never posted, but it’s almost unbelievable that the results of this poll like this would trigger resentment. Women and men should be able to marry each other no matter what nationality, race, “skin color”, or whatever naturalization-type word you want to use to further seperate the human species. They should not be made to feel as if they have done something wrong or singled out, what business is it of anyones? It is a matter of personal choice. Just because we are seperated by water or we live on different islands on this tiny stone called Earth does not mean we are so different from one another, nor better…. Call me judgemental, but anyone who has a negative thought based on these results are a bigots and fascists.
l.p.
Bryan Aldridge said,
June 19, 2006 @ 10:10
“The younger men hold images of themselves as charming the sophisticated Western woman, but as they age (and visit dodgy hostess bars…) they come to realise that perhaps only Asian women could accept their typical Japanese behaviour.”
I’m not sure if I agree with that interpretation. My version is as follows:
I think as they get older, they begin to prefer younger looking girls - ability to retain youthfulness for a long time begins to matter more. Whereas when you are young yourself, you tend to want to own what the society deems as a stereotypical beauty or an object-like beauty, if you will.
Far eastern asian women certainly do look young in general, something men begin to appreciate as they get older. This change is perception doesn’t seem to occur when you are very young yourself.
As for the “USA preference” issue, I think that’s just the good old positive USA bias Japan has had for decades.
jongrey said,
July 9, 2006 @ 02:29
I agree with Brian Aldridge\’s point. Ken\’s take on it would imply that male majority of a nation is influenced by a preference of a western woman. That may be true for some minority, but to consider that to be the deciding factor for the whole nation is unacademic at best, \”eurocentric mentality\” at worst.
I think the last poster hit the proverbial nail on the head; young boys prefer older women, old men prefer very young women. That transition probably takes place in mid 20s for many people, where western women suddenly begin to age rapidly. I think Asian women\’s ability to retain youthful features begin to gain appreciation when a man begins to mature, which is probably late 20s to 30s.
Melody McFarland said,
July 13, 2006 @ 08:18
In regard to Martin’s statement:
“To me it feels like being called an obese, ugly, stupid, McDonalds-bred, gun-touting, violent, loud, rude, monolinguistic, undemocratic, christian fanatic/terrorist due to the european stereotype of americans”
It’s such a shame your perception of people is so twisted. You’re really missing out on meeting a lot of very interesting people who might enhance your otherwise hateful life.
Admittedly, most Americans are fat slobs and the statistics don’t lie, but the gun-toting, loud, rude bit is ridiculous.
Sincerely, your thin, attractive, atheist, multilingual, research scientist, vegetarian, American friend,
Melody McFarland
RudeEuropeSavingAmericanSlob said,
July 25, 2006 @ 06:59
Hi Martin,
Japanese women are pretty wild, eh? They’re statistically prone to go for these obese, ugly, stupid, McDonalds-bred, gun-touting, violent, loud, rude, monolinguistic, undemocratic, christian fanatic Americans. Go figure! They could have a suave, well-mannered Swede like yourself and yet…rejection. Sucks to be you my friend.
Maybe if you whine and spew enough bile, one of them will throw you some mercy sex and the rest of us will be free of your BS. Oh…wait…or can’t you speak to them in Japanese Mr. Eurostud? I’m betting you can’t. For all the posturing and America-bashing I hear from Europeans, I know way more US citizens who speak fluent Japanese than from all European Union member countries combined. Plus - big bonus - we don’t smell like herring
Cheers,
Your bud
Mutantfrog said,
July 25, 2006 @ 15:48
(I’m not aware of any black Western role-models in Japan)
Bob Sapp isn’t a rolemodel?
Ken said,
July 26, 2006 @ 02:39
Interesting stuff. I can’t seem to find the trackback though…am I just blind?
Ed Hagedorn said,
July 26, 2006 @ 23:14
God bless the usa home of the brave and free: english french german irish sweedish spanish and every other nationality on the planet
you diss yourselves in a since when you trash america people.
rolly said,
August 5, 2006 @ 06:17
i have love to have a wife from japan as i had love to
live my live in american,That’s where my dream to write song is,
My e-mail address ios rollykeny@hotmail.com,Am from africa senegal the tourist town,
please if you are single living japan hala at me,
rolly
HanshinT said,
August 11, 2006 @ 10:46
Has anyone tried the ‘bonus point’ on offer?
Lets try… from top left and going clockwise…
1- Farrah Fawcett (US)
2- Yunsona (Korea).
3- Zhang ZhiYi (China).
4- Bardot? Sharapova? Generic Euro-supermodel?
5- Some old dear… possibly Russian (Sharapova in 70 years?)
6- Korean leader from the ‘Team America: World Police’ super-marionation movie.
7- Pepe LePew (nominal French)
8- Okachi (Japan) from comedy group NinetyNine dressed as a Super Mario Brother
9- Wayne Rooney (England footballer and ‘gurner’).
10- The fat kid from the ‘FatBoy Slim’ video.
Close?
Ken Y-N said,
August 12, 2006 @ 23:27
HanshinT - 4 is indeed Bardot. I didn’t realise that number 8 was from NinetyNine! 5 is indeed some random Russian hag.
alexinusa said,
August 27, 2006 @ 11:52
i live in usa. fat people really disgust me. ive worked throughout europe and can say in most countries excluding a few theres alot less fat people. which is a plus. but god are europeans ugly. you would think americans would be similar in looks to europeans since americans are from there originally. but i was shocked how many ugly people there are in europe. really disgusting. alot more good looking people in USA for sure. wonder why this is?
Joseph said,
August 30, 2006 @ 03:52
I agree with the random american, being one myself. That’s got to be some of the most hateful rubbish I’ve ever read. A real pity.
Alexinusa >>> Go to Bratislava! XD Some extraordinarily beautiful women there, that’s for certain!!
I’ve been all over the continental US, Japan, and most of Western Europe (lived in Germany for 3 years). Not to mention various other countries round the world. XD
I’m 23, btw! If that puts me opinions in perspective any.
The Owner said,
September 4, 2006 @ 13:20
Fuck that shit man, I’m from Canada and they wouldn’t see the difference between me and an American if i didn’t say it seriously. That’s a gay poll.
Jane said,
September 9, 2006 @ 05:06
I am a Japanese woman. No one is mentioning the fact that we asian women really like black men.
They are dearing, hot and sexy and they have really great bodies. Not skinny like asian men. They are also very proud and strong of mind.
Lots of my friends love black men.
Shawn said,
September 10, 2006 @ 15:33
I’m an American. At times I can say I’m proud to be one and other times not so proud. According to some recent study there is a rise in obesity. There is a lot I could say about how some things that are said are correct or how something are wrong, but to continue the topic is unfruitful course of action. I am only a five-foot six-inch 108 pound American. Anyone who wants to bother with the anorexic or bulimic thing doesn’t bother. I eat lots and often out eat my friends. I often enjoy pastas, breads, stir-fry with white rice, nearly anything with potatoes, nearly all meats but pork is not a favorite. I have learned more than most people by age 26. I can cook, bake, fry, make good BBQ, do cement work, drywall, drive cars /trucks, electronics, and even some heavy equipment, I’ve been train in the use pistols/ shotguns/ black powder “like other gun-touting people”, but it was so I could teach safety, responsibility, and hunting laws for game hunting, for example “birds, deer, turkey “. I am working to pay for college and learning computer programming, and computer art in order to eventually earn a 4-year degree. I do not come from a rich family so paying for college is my responsibility. I have never said that I understand all other cultures or countries nor am I saying anyone is better than anyone else. But I try to understand others, because when people do not bother to listen to others that are different then misunderstandings and misconceptions often occur. People can be admired for many different reasons. I find a great many things in Japan interesting and trying to learn about them. One thing I admire is their talent or great quality in everything they do. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it is their “atarimae no hinshitsu“? I have more recently stopped talking about religion as well as politics because those two topics can turn friends into enemies. I don’t fight with people, and if it comes to self-defense to protect a loved one or myself in a bad situation then I will.
I would like to consider myself respectable and talented but there are still many things I don’t know. If anyone has some questions and would like my opinion then feel free to ask. But for a Japanese poll I would like to hear from Japanese.
My only question is..
What makes Americans attractive to Japanese? Is it simply they are from a different background. I would like to hear more from people like Jane (September 9, 2006). Proud, and strong of mind?
AMERICA!!!! F_YEAH! said,
September 14, 2006 @ 15:53
That Europeans statements were pretty harsh. You can’t just generalize. If I was in Japan and some super hot Japanese chick came up to me and asked “Are you American” I’d be like “Hell yeah!” and then she would say “good” and then we wouldn’t say much outside of that cause, well, I don’t know much Japanese and her english wouldn’t be that great and all that jaberwalky.
But then, we’d take a walk in the park and she would show me some places and crap and then we’d go dance or something, play like DDR and or some s. All that good stuff. It’d be awesome. But that’s cause I’m American and the awesomeness would be amplified. Then she’d be all “Can you take me back to US or A?” in some wierd Russian Accent and I’d be like “Heck Yes Girl!”
We’d get married, she’d teach me Japanese, I’d teach her English alongside Spanish cause she’d need it cause of all them Mexicans. Then I’d make her a cake and everything would be hunky doory. Don’t take anything I said to seriously except for that Euro-Trash statement.
Dude, I just want a hot asian girlfriend.
anna said,
September 14, 2006 @ 18:48
i’m good looking girl easy going some one so loving faithfuli’m good looking girl easy going some one so loving faithfuli’m good looking girl easy going some one so loving faithfuli’m good looking girl easy going some one so loving faithfuli’m good looking girl easy going some one so loving faithful
Shawn said,
September 15, 2006 @ 16:04
If I could go over to Japan for 1 year, see the festivals, learn the customs, learn more of the language, and work to help pay the bills then I’d love the change to go. My only problems are money with my schooling right now and the fact I know very little about the language. I could not even speak simple phrases. So I’m afraid I’d be a bother to anyone I would be with there unless they could speak English. I’m trying to learn what I can now, but I don’t have much free time between work & school. The country is beautiful, and there would be so much to learn. Well from the things I’ve read most families would not want anyone getting married to outsiders or foreigners. And anything we find common around here is not so for Japan. Things are just done differently there. Something as simple as the way of life and how we were raised is just different. I’d like to get a more in-depth understanding of life in Japan. But the one thing I would love to be a part of is the Cherry Blossom Festival. It is one of the most beautiful things I’ve seen.
AmericanWhiteGuy said,
September 21, 2006 @ 05:42
Something tells me that “Jane” wasn’t really Asian or female. My observation of Asian females in the U.S. is that they usually prefer the company of other Asian men that they can relate to. The second highest probability is that they are with your average white guy who may or may not be good-looking which always surprised me as I’ve always thought a lot of Asian women could score a pretty decent-looking white guy if they tried. I’ve seen a few Asian women with black men as well but they seemed to be status-chasers of much the same kind as any white woman who dates a successful black guy. I’m not sure how well this model would hold up on the west coast but having lived in several places on the east coast, it remained the pretty much the same throughout.
REFMan said,
November 1, 2006 @ 14:31
Japanese Women love korean men
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/15432553.htm?source=rss&channel=cctimes_news
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/30/AR2006083002985.html
Ren said,
November 19, 2006 @ 08:30
Jane,
I’m a black male. If you or any of your friends are interested in hanging out let me know… I love japanese women. I’ve been to Japan twice and wish I could have stayed longer both times.
Andrew said,
November 23, 2006 @ 20:45
haha, why would japanese women go for inbred fat americans, most of which dont have a passport and have not been outside there country!!
laughable!
do americans know where Japan is?! yes a world exists out side america!! no japan is not in europe
Oona said,
November 26, 2006 @ 05:00
This is sad.
Why so much hatred? Because we allow the media to dictate “reality”. The reason you all hold so tightly to stereotypes because you have no experience with others to rely on.
I am Cherokee/Aruban born, raised, and currently reside in New York city.
I am fine with who I am and I love myself.
I have amazing friends here and very loving parents; both live in Switzerland.
I am curious about the world. I teach myself different languages. I don’t watch TV.
I read many books, compose my own music, write poetry, and paint pictures.
I love dancing and hula-hooping. Guns scare me. Junk food disgusts me.
I enjoy going to pow-wows and spending time with people I’ve just met on the train or while walking around.
I live without a roommate. I am an IT consultant. I am slim and healthy.
I help people realize their dreams. I teach English and charge no money for it.
I speak a little Japanese, as I am teaching myself.
I like cats. I believe in faries and enjoy thunderstorms.
What will become of us when there is nothing left to hate and everything else to love?
I look forward to that day.
It’s not world peace, but a shift in how we think of one another.
Or would you rather kill eachother off with words and weapons?
While you’re doing that, I’ll be dancing and having fun with my friends at a night club.
Oh, I forgot to mention my boyfriend is Japanese.
He is very good to me. He appreciates my independence, intelligence, love, and unique traits.
I appreciate him as an individual, friend, lover, and life-teacher.
We make a great team and we learn from one another. We laugh at haters.
Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! *smirk*
Delboy said,
November 30, 2006 @ 23:27
Asians or Oriental people (I’m from England so Asian means south Asian like Indian or Pakistani) have this weird inferiority complex towards white people. I think this is down to historical dominance and media brain washing. Asians, whether they be Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Pilipino or Vietnamese, have a high cultural respect for people that have conquered them. Whites have conquered Asians for many centuries and this has lead to a deep rooted Suzie Wong inferiority complex with Asian even now. As a Black person what I don’t get is why Asians have such a lack of regard for black people. I read a book by a famous Chinese writer and she stated that Chinese people sometimes refer to black people as Soya devils. No disrespect to my Oriental peeps, but it wasn’t black people that turned the Chinese into drug addicts and stole their land. It wasn’t black people that nuked the Japanese. It wasn’t black people that napalmed the Vietnamese, It wasn’t black people that divided up Korea and it isn’t black people sleeping with the kids of Thailand, so why the hate?
I was recently in Thailand with my pals. We were in a big group of guys. Some of the people in our group were black, some were Asian and my two of my pals were white. In Bangkok the white guys got all the female attention in our group. Us black guys and Asian brothers were being completely ignored. It took me a few days realise why. Bangkok is a city in an Asian country, but you look at all the billboards, the magazines, TV and it is full of white people. There is even this Thai Sports channel that has this outrageous subliminal TV advert. Remember this is a sports channel, but every ad break has a two minute advert that shows a picture montage of famous beautiful white people like Brad Pitt, Angela Jolie, Britney Spears etc. There are no words and there is no product that is being sold. This is clear brain washing with this advert on every 10 minutes and this channel goes out across Asia telling Asians that white skin and white people are the colour to aspire too. I even went to a local pharmacy to get some toothpaste and the biggest section in the store was skin bleaching products. It was at this point I thanked god I’m black and that black people don’t have this inferiority complex towards white people. You can see that Thai women are so desperate for white babies that they don’t care what the guy looks like they will go for them if they are white. In fact the only Black people I saw on TV were on the show Cops and the film Sahara (a film were the black people are the bad guys). America’s greatest achievement behind consumerism is teaching the worlds how to dislike blacks.
The ironic thing is that a black dude dating a Thai woman would raise more eyebrows with locals than an old fat balding white dude exploiting a stunning young Thai girl. Whether we like it or not Asian women are stereo-typed as the best female lovers and black men are stereo-typed as being the best male lovers. So it doesn’t matter where in the world you are most people think great freaky sex when they see a Black due with an Asian girl.
It is only when you travel outside of Bangkok that you see attitudes change and that is down to far less pro-European advertising on the streets and little access to cable channels on TV. In other parts of Thailand they actually prefer black people because they feel whites act like Thailand is their country, plus black street culture is far more relevant to working class Thai people. I can only hope that this Suzie Wongism is not as bad as I saw in Thailand in other parts of Asian, but with David Beckham seen as a god in all parts of Asian and lots of Asians with dyed blond hair makes me think it is like this all over Asia.
Oriental people have a lot to be proud of and they shouldn’t see themselves as lesser than white people. In the UK scientist have said it is official Oriental women are more likely to produce a child of high intelligence than any other race of women. They claim that people from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand and over far eastern oriental countries have the genetic body structure to produce children of high intelligence. These same scientist state males of west of African origins produce the children of greatest physical dexterity, meaning that their children will gain movement quicker, have greater reactions, hand eye coordination and plus more speed and power. These scientist, who are white in case you are cynical, claim that whites are genetically mediocre and that to create the prefect genetic human you would have to get an Oriental woman to have a child with a West African man. I guess Tiger Woods is a good example of this. I know his Dad is African American and his Mother is half white half Thai. But 97% of all American Americans originate from West Africa and Tiger is not only the most powerful golfer he is the smartest too. It is just ironic that we live in a white created society that teaches Black and Oriental people to look down on each other.
I know a lot of Asian women don’t date black guys because that perceives them as stupid. I’m a black and I would agree with that statement when it comes to African Americans. I think ignorance really is a general American problem, but I have always had problems as a British Black male that African American culture seems to be the dominate black culture worldwide. Am I the only person in the world who feels that one of the most historically oppressed and manipulated black people in the world shouldn’t be settling the cultural agenda for more developed black societies? You think with all that money Jay-Z & 50 Cent would pay someone to help make them speak more articulately.
Well to all the Asians that think black people are genetically predisposed to be stupid then look at Britain. The UK has the biggest West African population outside of the Africa. The UK education system is far superior to the US education system. In UK government statistics the top performing groups academically are students from Oriental and West African backgrounds. Many people claim the reason why UK West Africans are the only black group performing very well and out performing whites in school is because they were the blacks that were never slaves, so they don’t suffer from the psychological stigma that many blacks across the world face knowing they descend from slaves.
So Black and Asian people lets have more fried chicken with fired rice. More half Nigeria half Chinese people, more Ghanaian Japanese people, more Ivorian Koreans and hope that Suzie Wong gets married to Uncle Tom and lives happily ever after.
Jesi said,
December 3, 2006 @ 09:17
Wow. So many “opinions”. I’m a 27 yr old American female living in Japan. I’ve been here on and off for 3 years. I have lived in 3 different areas. Kansai, Kanto and Hokkaido. Generally, from I have witnessed Japanese women like foreign men. Some LOVE black men, whether they be African-Americans or from some other country. To the point of them liking guys just FOR the color of their skin. I have noticed far more Japanese females have foreign partners than Japanese males have foreign partners. I think most of this is due to the fact that Japanese men think they are inadequate to Caucasion and Black men. (Size wise) Japanese women also like how foreign men treat them. Better. Foriegn men are willing to spend time with them and talk, and aren’t afraid of saying “I love you” more than once.
Japanese men are HOT. Not all, but many. I have yet to date or be with a foreigner in Japan. All the men I have had any interest in have been Japanese. This is unusual. Foreign girls LIKE J-boys, but rarely catch them. It was only until I came to Hokkaido that I met other females (that total being 3 besides myself) who’ve had experience with Japanese men. I take it back. I knew one female in Kansai who had a J-boy.
Point being, Japanese like whoever gives them attention. I had to work pretty hard to get my first J-boy. Not because he didn’t like me, just because he didn’t have any experience with a foreign woman.
Most Japanese men who have had a foreign partner/girlfriend have only had one. Whereas, Japanese women have had countless foreign partners.
I think in general Americans are more accepting of bi-racial coupling. Despite all the racial tensity portrayed, people in the US generally do get along with other races. Europeans tend to be a bit snobbish about um, well, everything. And, I might add, most countries that were former British colonies tend to have that high-nose attitude. Not that everyone is like that, but I think Japanese tend to go for a little less hmmmph.
Japanese women and Korean men…Korean men are portrayed as intimate and sentimental, something Japanese men rarely are. Of course they are going to like that kind of guy…whether he’s Mexican, Chinese, Korean or Italian.
About weight. I’m probably considered slightly overweight, but no more so than you’re average flesh and bones Japanese girl (fat percentage wise). Japanese women have no muscle. Non-asian women have muscle. I have yet to see a muscular Japanese woman. I have been a member at 3 gyms here and have YET to see a woman come remotely close to my muscular build. Either they are skin and bones or just fat. And yes, Japan has fat people too. And they are getting fatter at an alarming rate.
So there you have it. My perspective on Japan.
Delboy said,
December 3, 2006 @ 18:59
In response to Jesi comments that American’s are most tolerant people of bi racial couples and that Europeans more snobbish to bi-racial couples is not exactly true. I hope she was not including the British in her slight against Europeans. The British put the Americans to shame when it comes to tolerance of others races and mixed raced couples. Remember in the USA for romantic comedy films if the lead actor is Black then the female lead has to be Latin or Oriental because Americans still find a white woman dating a black man weird. That is what they did for the film Hitch with Will Smith and have you wondered why on all American TV shows all interracial couple seem to be between ethnic minorities like ER and that other hospital show. The UK has the biggest mixed raced population in the world with 50% of the “Black” population having a parent of another race. Race isn’t even an issue in Britain when it comes to dating because it is so common. British white people are the weirdest in the world because they have superiority complex to every white population in the world. They think they are too good to be called European, they have long considered Americans to be stupid and inferior, but consider black people more as equals. If you were to ask the British person to come up with a list of the top 5 most respected Americans ever, most British white people would have more Africans Americans on that list than white Americans. This makes the British very unique for Europeans because in mainland Europe especially in Southern and Eastern Europe they don’t even consider black people to be even human. So the British can be very openly racist to other white nations but more tolerant to black people. Another strange quirk of the British is that this tolerance of black people is not necessary extended to Asians or South Asians. Maybe they see qualities in black people they would like for themselves, but don’t see qualities in Asians they would like for themselves. In fact a lot of the major racial problems in the UK have been between Whites & South Asian Muslims and this is down to British South Asian suicide bombers and this is leading to UK Whites to be less tolerant of all races. Put it this way if you are black in the UK you are not going to find it hard to get laid because UK white women love black guys more than another women in the world easily. Britain has 400 years of history of white women sleeping with black men and this tradition has continued today. I think lot this warm has to do with sex, but it also has to do with kids too. In Britain half white and half black people are consider to be the most beautiful. On UK TV all the commercials that use kid actors always used black or mixed raced kids. If you add to the fact that Black people in Britain are better educated and better dressed than they are in other parts of the world, this makes the UK and especially London the real melting pot that American falsely claims to be. If America is meant to be more tolerant, how many really famous white American women have you seen dating black guys? In Britain nearly every celebrity has.
all of u are gaz said,
December 5, 2006 @ 07:58
omg IN A SINCE WHEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ALREADY KNOWS THE ANZER TO LE KVESTIN FSS->>> >—D
Douglas Drummin said,
December 7, 2006 @ 06:50
All i know is Asian women are so sexy i dont care about white black green yellow in this day and age people need to understand that this is the world we live in and who cares if your parents or her parents dont like you or him there gonna talk about you behind your back any and so is your family and vice versa if there any Asain woman out there in my area that want to have a tea and a conversation just email me by the way im black and mix with alot of things but right now asian women have such a vice grip on black men its not even funny
p.s look at tiki barber and his brother both have asian mates i can say one thing ive never seen a ugly Blk/Asian baby never
Douglas Drummin said,
December 7, 2006 @ 06:54
DouglasIII@tmo.blackberry.net
Douglas Drummin said,
December 7, 2006 @ 06:56
Oh by the way alot of people dont date other races because they dont know how to talk to people some people just think you have to change to date someone that not your race thats wrong you stay the same they love you for who your are not who you pretend to be
DouglasIII@tmo.blackberry.net
Jackie Aldridge said,
December 7, 2006 @ 07:14
I’ve been interested in this question fpr a long time and don’t have any answers. Sometimes I think some American men like Asian women because they tend to be slimmer than American women. And then sometimes I think some men perceive of Asian women as being more docile and less likely to argue in a relationship. But then sometimes it must be that they just happen to be attracted to one particular person who is Asian. I guess I resent it when I think there is a “taking advantage” kind of relationship going on. With some men who happen to want things all their way. But at the most, it only means that my first impression with people I meet who are inter-race/culture mixed is “What is going on here”. Then, if it looks like they have a good relationship, I stop worrying about it. And if they don’t, well I avoid them. Asian men, that I meet, are generally nice guys. But I tend to be turned on by very high IQs and a certain agressive attitude(commoner in Euro & Americans). And most Asian guys I meet aren’t putting themselves out to be that type of person, especially by the time they reach middle age, so it’s rare to meet one that I want to try for. Motto for life: Don’t worry, be happy.
Delboy said,
December 8, 2006 @ 08:37
I think there is a slight myth about asian women that does attract a lot of men wanting to have women that match this myth. Asian women are stereo-typed as being amazing in bed. I have dated women of every colour including Asian women and found this not to be the case. I have been with a Chinese woman, Japanese woman and a Thai woman. If I can crudely generalis, while Asian women tend to be very supple they are very easy to please sexually. I have found that Asian women reach climax far quicker than other types of women I have been with. So I guess in a round about way Asian women are the best lovers for the male ego.
The other myth is that Asian women are more passive than other types of women. I think there is an element of truth in this when it comes to Asian born and raised Asian women (especially Japanese). But the Western Asian women I have dated have been some of the most assertive and arrogant women I have dated. I think this could be down to the fact that maybe they are aware of the stereotype the West has of Asian girls and why some men are attracted to Asian girls so they try their best not to match it.
Douglas Drummin said,
December 9, 2006 @ 04:49
I just think why other races are looking to other races is the tiredness (is that a word lol) of people there are tired of dealing with i know with black woman its the same story if the have there stuff together they have there nose up in there air or if there struggling its always give me give me the majority of black woman have this chip on there shoulder like America owes them something i just tired of there loudness and lact of class by the way im black so dont think this is some white guy running his mouth im just tired its always something black woman need to wake up and start being humble your not the cream of the crop any more latin woman and asian women have taking over to the point you dont even want to date a black women any more why bother with the headache im sorry people im just tired of the same old thing
Klownz2theLeftofMe said,
December 9, 2006 @ 19:39
Delboy, might I suggest that these Asian women who “reach climax far quicker than other types of women” might be,uh, more disposed to faking it? Think about it.
Delboy0 said,
December 11, 2006 @ 23:26
Klownz2theLeftofMe lol.
I’m a Black British dude and that means I know women fairly well. I don’t mean to be graphic but there are certain biological things you can’t fake. I said I maybe making a wrong generalisation, but in business school I learned if something happens 5 or 6 times you have a trend. Maybe I’ve been extremely lucky in my choice of Asian women.
I think Douglas is being a bit harsh on Black women. Don’t get me wrong in England we have Black women with this attitude too, I call them the mini-Lil Kims. I don’t know about America but in Britain there are good black women out there. I think it just depends what you as a man are looking for. Being a Londoner I have dated women from all around the world of all colours. If you were to break up the female into attributes I could tell which attributes you were most likely find in a type of woman.
Lets take these attributes as LOOKS, CHARACTER, INTELLIGENCE, WIT.
LOOKS represent the looks of the women.
CHARACTER represents the assertiveness and passion of the women.
INTELLIGENCE represents high intelligence women.
WIT is the personality of the women, talkative and how funny and humorous the women is.
You can pretty much find women of all colours with each of these attributes, but the number of women that have each attribute varies from race to race.
Your will find a lot of Black women with LOOKS, CHARACTER and WIT and lots of Black women with CHARACTER, INTELLIGENCE and WIT. There are black women with all four of these attributes, but very small in number. Which explains why in the UK that successful Black women tend to be single.
Asian women tend to have LOOKS and INTELIGENCE. You may get many Asian women with LOOKS, CHARACTER and INTELLIGENCE (usually western) but the minute an Asian girl has WIT you can forget about LOOKS. I haven’t seen many beautiful funny Asian women and I think you tend to find more Beautiful Black women who are very funny.
North European or American White women tend to have LOOKS, CHARACTER or the women have INTELLIGENCE, WIT and CHARACTER or just LOOKS and WIT. I think whites girls from these parts tend to rely more on their looks more than any other type of women, but you do get white women with looks and intelligence, but is more likely they will have character than wit, because funny beautiful white women is much rarer than assertive beautiful white women.
South American or Mexican women have LOOKS and WIT or LOOKS and CHARACTER or INTELLIGENCE, WIT and CHARACTER. INTELLIGENCE and LOOKS is also rare in Latin women but more likely in Latin women than white women.
Southern European (Italian, French & Spanish) women are the women you most likely to find women with all four attributes. In these places people really know how to dress so being good looking is not nearly enough to get by like it is for Northern European women. They have all the personality of black women so they have strength of character and real wit. They don’t rely on looks alone so they have a high intelligence and know how o dress and present themselves well. If you don’t believe me then see what a female lawyers looks like in America, UK, Asia and Africa and then look at females Lawyers in Italy and you will see women that look like models not lawyers. This doesn’t apply to Italian or Spanish Americans because they are very different to European Italian or Spanish people.
Juko said,
December 12, 2006 @ 06:27
I am Japanese woman living with black man in Los Angeles. He is much too big for me, so when we love it only half way. But I love him and give him oral pleasure all the time. He has friends who are smaller and who I can take all the way. So sometimes we do three together and it is very wild times.
Douglas Drummin said,
December 12, 2006 @ 06:33
Hey Juko if you have any girl friends in NEW YORK tell them to give me a call if they like black guys
Marty said,
December 12, 2006 @ 21:39
Hmmm….if we actually look at the statistics…it shows…
Japanese men marry:
Americans 156
British 65
Japanese women marry:
Americans 1,529
British 334
Now…there are five times as many Americans than there are Brits so surely if the Japanese really preferred Americans they should have five times as many marriages than Brits marrying Japanese. So why hijack the thread being just about Americans? Actually I’m just joking, I don’t care…I wanted to join in but was feeling a bit left out by not being American!!!
Regarding the guy who was bashing Americans - why dignify his views with a response? Better not to care what people who live their life based on stereotypes think surely? I’m a Brit and I have met some Americans who are dicks…but that is because they are idiots not because of their nationality, hence why my American friends I think are cool. There is good and bad in each country, including our own.
Could it be instead that most of the marriages are not because the partner is specifically American (or Brit or French) but simply more to do with them liking each other? I hope so. The emphasis of this poll on solely ‘American’ or white vs. asian is a bit depressing really.
Excellent post from delboy as well…I’m not sure why but there seems to be a far worse view in some Asian countries towards blacks than whites. In China for example I was told a number of times that when a Chinese girl dates a white guy it is seen as her moving upwards socially whereas seeing a black guy would be moving downwards. This seems both racist and misogynist in outlook.
Remember on one occasion I asked when I was teaching (they were successful university lecturers and I was giving a lecture) if it was OK for people to marry with those of a different culture. Most said if they loved each other then fine…then one lady stood up and said “If they love each other it is good but Chinese with black people….I cannot accept this”. This was completely out of nowhere and race hadn’t been brought up…the rest seemed to nod along as if this was perfectly obvious. Bizarre! It’s not as if any black guys ever torched the Summer Place like us Brits and the French did! There was also some Anti-African riots in Nanjing in the late 80s…there it was triggered by an incident involving African students and Chinese girls. It’s hard to believe they would have been so angry if it had been white guys.
Not sure why blacks are looked down upon so much there…but it most certainly has not been forced upon them by the West but it is much more complicated (and older) than that.
Marty said,
December 12, 2006 @ 21:48
Jesi said - “Europeans tend to be a bit snobbish about um, well, everything. And, I might add, most countries that were former British colonies tend to have that high-nose attitude.”
I agree - former British colonies like Canada and America for example!
Come on…all countries have some people with the high-nose attitude! Certainly the USA does as anyone who has ever been to the East Coast will be able to verify!
Most modern limeys are no more high-nosed than the average Aussie, Kiwi or Canuck. At least not when you get to know them, maybe they are slightly more reserved with complete strangers but that is not a negative, they are just being careful.
Delboy0 said,
December 13, 2006 @ 13:03
People are just people and doesn’t matter what your colour or sex is. But media can influence society and people and it is wrong when this happens in a negative way. The British are generally a more left wing socialist society, but because most of the people in the media are upper middle class and white the media is very right wing and if it wasn’t for the BBC all the media would be right-wing like America. This is creating a more right-wing society in UK like America where there is a greater fear of people of different colours. Britain was very different to the USA because it was just as diverse but people of different colours mixed far more. I’m 27 years old and Ghanaian in origin and remember having an Irish, Jamaican and Indian nannies. My next door neighbours were Greek and Scottish and we all did things socially together. Britain never really had racial ghettos like America because the place is just too small especially in overpopulated London and that is why interracial relationships are far more common in the UK. Yes I know there are South Asian ghettos in the UK, but Brixton is meant to be a Black British ghetto, but the place is still 40% white. I’ve been to the USA and there are places you won’t ever see a white face at all.
Ethnic interracial dating has always been weird for 1st generation immigrants because while they might be against interracial dating, white is the most acceptable race to date outside of their own. More so for Asians than black people. I remember when I told my mum I was dating a Chinese girl she said I must be dating her because I like Chinese food. It was silly comment, but that explains that people look for reasons why someone from an ethnic group would date outside of their race for a person in another ethic group beyond love. So if an Asian woman dates a Black dude to other Asians she must be dating him for a big penis and great sex so she must be some kind of whore. It is perceived better sex is the only thing a Black man can offer an Asian woman that an Asian man can’t. If an Asian women dates a white male (and this applies to South Asians too) then other Asians view this as her not being touch with her roots, that she wants fairer babies, that she wants a life in the west or he is loaded and very successful. Given the community perceptions of dating black and white people it is no wonder so many middle class Asian girls date white men and not black men. It is far less painful to be label culturally not in touch than a whore for dating a black dude. It works both ways because a black man that dates an Asian woman is perceived as wanting a weak subservient woman that can be bought, implying that he is weak himself. The ironic things is western Asian women are aware of that stereotype too so they are far more likely to be assertive & dominate than perceived. Then again this has been my experience of dating Asian girls. Maybe Asian girls that date Black guys are far stronger minded and assertive because it is far more acceptable for an Asian girl to date a white guy than a black guy.
Dell Boy said,
December 15, 2006 @ 06:21
DelBoy0………wow… hats off… finally someone who share similiar views on many levels.. next time i visit my grand parents and the rest of my family in London and Bradford.. i gots to give you a ring.. my email address is finish_99@yahoo.com. take care
justin said,
December 21, 2006 @ 07:23
Women go for bad guys and not polite shy people. So japanese guys, if you want interracial dating to stop, take some lessons from the gun touting unilingual uneducated americans and get some guts. Don’t complain that us white guys are taking your women go get a girlfriend and be cool/tough/funny because underneath it all thats what most women want, not politeness or intelligence or money. Just some advice from a teenager in south carolina.
Lee said,
December 23, 2006 @ 14:39
Delboy seems to have major gaps in his historical knowledge and sociological reasoning. Maybe too many days were missed while attending those superior British schools.
walter said,
December 24, 2006 @ 07:41
Race really shouldn’t matter in these modern days and times. Everyone has a right to prefer whether or not to choose a partner of their race or own colour. However, let me emphasize that as for China, China is still basically Communist, therefore their ideology is limited when it comes to dating black people in general. Don’t get me wrong there are several black/Chinese couples, but I personally would not prefer Chinese women anyway from China because SOME (not all) of them are so in tune with the Commie ideology. So surprise to all of you who think that it’s always Chinese are prejudiced against blacks. Blacks can be just as prejudiced against Chinese if not worse. Most of the times, younger blacks and Chinese would prefer to date each other, but it is always the family of each, not just the Chinese, that objects to such. Then as for some black Americans such as myself, there are the polictical views. Particularly when it comes to Taiwan as I support Taiwanese independence as well as support for a Free Tibet. If I was to let a Chinese girl or even a Chinese American know about my support for this, what do you think would happen? Therefore, China basically has a long way to go on human rights and respect for Taiwan and Tibet sovereignty in general before it realizes that all humans are the same and that China shouldn’t blame its past failures on foreign interventions but on themselves. Especially on their current government who really just cares about keeping its power and uses Taiwan as an issue to unite Chinese against Taiwan which is really wrong. Therefore, I am basically further supporting Marty’s comment on why Chinese in particular, view blacks so negatively as well as shedding light on the China situation in particular.
Also, in my opinion I would rather date Japanese or Taiwanese girls anyway. I personally think Japanese and Taiwanese girls are way cuter anyway. This is just my opinion. I know there are good-looking Chinese out there, but you’d better not be a black/Native American with a passion for supporting Taiwanese independence like I do…hahahaha, or you WILL be arguing constantly with your Chinese gf. But Chinese girls in my opinion, are very beautiful and they are just like any other girl. Women may come from different cultures, have different political views, but they all want the same thing regarding men and they are just like any other woman in this world regardless of race, beliefs, nationality, politics, whatever, you name it. Thank you.
Reddeath26 said,
December 24, 2006 @ 08:51
Well firstly it amazes me to find a place where people actually read the other posts. xD Clearly this is a concept that should be applied to other forums.
Isn’t the fact that USA controls international media so much going to have an effect on this? Assuming that those stats are an accurate representation which I have doubts about, media will have an influence on it. How much of a monopoly does USA have on films? From what I have heard it has been and is sometimes still marketed as a “modern” country. Politics in USA are constantly trying to promote the fact that their society is modern and others ie Communism are outdated and false. This could change the influence America has.
Walter said,
December 25, 2006 @ 03:31
Actually um Reddeath, who in here said Communism was outdated or false? I simply said Communism has a completely different ideology and it does. Now history shows that Communism isn’t really all that great and yeah of course democracy hasn’t been good, but it has a very solid and strong foundation based on UNIVERSAL values. Not one time did I say China because of Communism was a backward country. It is not and how would you possibly even assume that. However, no matter how far economically a country rises, if it doesn’t respect the basic rights of the individual, something’s going to give and it’s not going to be the individual. It doesn’t matter whether the country’s a monarchy, democracy, or Communist, if that government doesn’t respect just the basic universal freedoms as in the case with China, the people can “rock the boat” and the government will result in a political implosion.
But that really wasn’t my point. My point was simply that I supported Taiwanese independence and that if I was to tell a Chinese girl that I would get hell, but a Taiwanese on the other hand would be all over me so that was my basic point, but it really isn’t releveant and I thought I would just throw out China’s situation to readers who aren’t aware of the “real” China.
Delboy said,
December 27, 2006 @ 22:59
In response to Lee comments I assume he is American and took great offence to my comments that UK schools are better than American schools. British schools aren’t particularly great when compared to over European nations, But America has the lowest literacy rates in the western world so your schools can’t be that wonderful.
What were the issues you had with my social and historical reasoning? I wasn’t too specific in my historical references and my social comments were, I thought, comprehendible. Yes I know more African Americans fought in the Vietnam war than white Americans because it was harder for African Americans to object to conscription than white Americans, but it is clear from the tone of your short comment that you disagree fundamentally with something I have said.
I would like to know what you disagree with because I am always open to feedback, unlike a section of some Americans.
I think you can’t general any race of people really because people are mostly a product of their environment. Japanese girls born and raised in Brazil are completely different to Japanese girls in Japan. In fact Brazilian Japanese girls are basically Latin in sensibility, which is a heady mix. I have also met a Chinese girl from Nigeria. I have to say it was a bit weird seeing this Chinese girl with a strong Nigerian accent. Then again a white South African to me he felt my well spoken English accent was weird coming me a black guy so maybe I’m just being ignorant.
me said,
December 28, 2006 @ 21:09
i’m 22, a white australian guy 6′2….
god damn the amount of sex i had when i went to japan to visit my penpals!
i love japanese girls!!!
walter said,
December 29, 2006 @ 07:07
Yeah I agree with the above comment about Japanese girls. They are like sooooooooooo kirei! Oh and sooooooo hot!
Lee said,
January 2, 2007 @ 06:47
Delboy,
My earlier comments were kept brief because I didn’t feel that expounding on them would be within the subject matter. But since you asked I’ll explain a bit…
Your Nov. 30 comments had some interesting personal anecdotes, but at the end betray a prejudice that so many African immigrants in America and Britain seem to have against Afro-Americans. This prejudice causes a breakdown in logic, most likely because of ignorance of one’s own history, world history and some sociological trends that are so consistent that they might as well be considered axiomatic.
You say that british west Africans perform well because they don’t suffer from the history of slavery and therefore don’t suffer “psychological stigma” from that. Well, slavery has been widespread and pervasive in human civilization from the beginning. The 1000 year dominance of Rome (the republic and the empire) was marked by pervasive slavery, where slaves were a defined class and mostly relegated to that status for their entire lives and passed that status to their children; the slaves of Sparta (the Helots) were among the worst treated slaves in history; the word slave derives from Slav, a group of people who found themselves subjugated for much of their history. Nigerians kept slaves in their own country, who were never exported, to work the palm oil plantations for shipment of that lubricant to Europe. After the Berlin Conference the Nigerians and Ghanaians were virtual slaves in their own country under the rule of the of the British. They were forced to acquiesce in the rape of their country’s resources for the benefit of Britain, forced to pay taxes to the colonizer, were victims of the british divide and conquer tactic by -among other things-the british limiting availability of education. Is there psychological stigma or genetic consequences for these extant group of people whose ancestors experienced slavery and abject subjugation? Can we say that the very bad reputation that Nigerians have across the world (and not just for the “Nigerian internet scams” meme) is the result of psychological trauma from this history of slavery and being colonized? I would not say so, but others might (maybe you?) Franz Fanon wrote about some of the psychological damage he found in the colonized in his book ‘Black Skin, White Masks’ (not as often quoted as his ‘Wretched of the Earth’). Maybe Fanon’s analysis could explain why Africans manifest such prejudice and negative actions toward Afro-Americans?
I would say the the hip hop culture phenomenon is not a black thing, but an American thing. Hip hop culture was started by latinos and blacks in New York, although there are plenty of examples of rapping or rhyming in black music and entertainment before hip hop started in the 1970s. One can see some of hip hop culture’s traits in other aspects of American culture including early American rock and roll, the gangster history of America (Al Capone, Bonnie and Clyde, John Dillinger) and American ‘me-first’ capitalism (or as they might say in your country ‘devil take the hindmost’). Afro-Americans are not some recent immigrant group to America. They were there from the beginning and are part and parcel of what made and makes America (along with the British and Native American part). I could give you many, many examples illustrating that America is at is core a syncretic culture formed of these three groups. You should discipline your mind and not let the mass media tell you that hip hop culture defines black America. I can’t believe you gave Jay Z and 50 cent as examples. Culture is not just entertainment, and entertainment is not real power. Maybe you should also think of Jesse Jackson, Condoleeza Rice, Ron Brown, Thurgood Marshall or Randall Robinson when you think of black America. If you haven’t heard of some of these names maybe you should reach for a higher standard, turn off the television and read a book. I know TV can be addicting. I watched a ridiculous amount of it growing up. I also know how good british education is, but you won’t do too badly if you follow the example of Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, president of Liberia, or Kwame Nkrumah and many other world leaders by studying in the US. I went to public primary school in the US and received a better education than many people I’ve met who went to private primary schools. My experience may not be universal but it shows that neither is the converse. A big issue here is trying to get the federal government to both be more proactive in the education of the indigent and to put money into the public schools instead of waiting and hoping for them to disintegrate as a means to turning them over to private enterprises.
Finally, many African immigrants mistakenly compare themselves to the poor and uneducated in the black American population when making their assertions. In order to come to this country most African immigrants were already of means, both financially and economically (assuming they didn’t win the visa lottery to come to the US). They should compare themselves to educated blacks and those of comparable means.(I would say the same to black Americans who emigrate to South Africa or France) When they do that, their conclusions are shown to be wrong. If I went to Nigeria or Ghana, I wouldn’t compare myself to the poor, uneducated and unemployed of those countries. Unfortunately all societies have these sectors, and if one wants to make comparisons and make sociological points about education, upward mobility etc, one has to compare apples with apples.
I’m sure I’ve gone on far too long and have only touched the surface. Now about Asian and black dating…
walter said,
January 3, 2007 @ 10:19
Lee I like totally agree with you man. That was like sooo deep. Lol. That Dellboy guy is something. British blacks smarter than American blacks? What?!!! I mean who like really cares about intelligence? All I want is a nice, good-looking Asian girl next to me…sigh. Anyway I don’t really care about race. I mean I’m half black and Native American and I prefer Asian girls (especially Japanese…kirei!!), so what’s the harm? I think the world of today is getting more mature and the more people know, then the more better decisions they will make. So screw this whole race thing, I could care less. Sure racism does exist but it’s not gonna stop me from doing my thing, you know? Alright Lee take it easy.
Lee said,
January 5, 2007 @ 13:30
walter, I also don’t let race stop me from doing my thing in the dating game (or at least from trying to do my thing). Beauty of course comes in all colors, and I find asian women very attractive, but they can be particularly standoffish when it comes to blacks (at least here in the US, and I had an interesting experience going out with a korean woman). This seems to be magnified with those of japanese and chinese background. Philipinos seem to be much more open to dating black men than other asian women (the military thing?). Negative stereotypes of blacks are pervasive internationally and that undoubtedly affects japanese and chinese women, but I don’t think that totally accounts for their obvious reluctance to date blacks because they are exposed in their workplace (speaking of my US experience), doctor’s offices, the US government and other aspects of american society to blacks that obviously don’t fit the stereotypes they see in the mass media. I suspect that for them the “perception is 2/3 of reality” thing is in effect and leads to an ingrained notion that one’s “status” will be diminished if they are with a black, regardless of his salary or high education level. Some of this is based on my personal experience which can lead one down the road of wrong conclusions.
well anyway, I hope to go to japan, korea and china relatively soon because one can get a skewed picture based only on experience of asians in US or Europe. maybe convince that special someone to come to the Darkside (you don’t know the power!)
Douglas Drummin said,
January 6, 2007 @ 01:47
I dont know what Lee is talking about all Asian woman love Black Men and Vice Versa look at the trend its in its all about the Kids we make together when you put a Asian and white baby together ahhhh but someone with color now thats a pretty baby with both side of the feild it seems the children that come fromm a black and Asian mother and father seem to be more curious about the world almost like they wont let the world stop them from getting what they want besides the things the world puts in there way this is just my thoughts please no one take this to heart but in the us its all where you live if you live in on the west coast no problem black Asian all day if you live in NewYork ahhhhh its around but the Asians on the Newyork side like White men and it seems the Asiam women on the west Coast have better asses it seem there all flat on the east coast maybe its just me seeing through the eyes of a 30 year old Half Black man lololo
Lee said,
January 6, 2007 @ 13:21
Douglas, second time in as many days that I’ve been told about the west coast-east coast difference. I think I’m going to have to take a trip out west. (also, I think your butt differential theory deserves some research on my part)
Douglas Drummin said,
January 9, 2007 @ 03:00
trust me east coast is awfull noass@all just look around 20% outta of 100% of Asian woman have a Meat in the back anyway its like you hit the jackpot if you can find one with a but mostly more south asians have bodys some of them from japan but not likely prove me wrong send a picture to my email address if im wrong. (onlypinio@yahoo.com)
walter said,
January 10, 2007 @ 02:32
Look guys! Who cares! I don’t care if “statistically” Asian women are standoffish towards blacks! I’m not even 100 percent black, but in the United States who is? I mean I have a myspace account, and I have like around 50 Japanese honies on my page, so I could really care less. I care nothing about stats. All I know is I’m attracted to Asian girls, Chinese and Japanese in particular, and I’m sure that if I work hard enough (half of that is already done because I look good…lol), then I will definitely date an Asian girl or even settle down with one. So I can care a damn less about any of this “Asian girls prefer white guys only” because I know it’s bullshit. I mean I guess I could be mean and say, “White guys are turning to Asian girls because white girls are being taken by black guys in the United States.” I see this everyday and I live in Alabama! So my point is stop this racial stuff and just get along. I’m getting my Oriental girl damnit! Lol. OH and if anyone wants to hate on that, then f%$k you! I could care less. Thank you sirs for putting up with my bad words today but I’m just gettin tired of this black and white thing. It’s stupid, old, and people need to STOP IT. Even stats are so discriminating because I know for a fact that Japanese girls in Japan LOVE black guys. Especially American black guys so no one can sit here and tell me otherwise. If I wanted to I could easily get a Chinese girl as well. It’s not about race in my opinion, it’s about the overall individual. If you’re a loser, feel bad about yourself, and just don’t take care of yourself, then yeah why would a pretty Asian girl want you? It seems only in America does race count, or people discuss it quite often, and it’s quite stupid. Then as a result, Asian-American girls get influenced by black stereotypes and date white guys. It’s as if white guys are oooh so perfect when it’s really not true. So screw this race thing, I could care less, and I’m all the way for Asian girls. So get over it guys!
Lee said,
January 10, 2007 @ 12:43
Walter, chill. There is nothing to get over. This was just a discussion of one aspect of a topic (who japanese and other asian women date). As with all (good) topics and websites, the discussion can take all sorts of unexpected turns and asides. It’s called exchanging ideas. Race is just one aspect of this topic, as was nationality. Forgive me but…it’s quite silly to suggest that simply because race is discussed that a person is obsessed or anything. It’s only a subject. Instead of pulling a Joseph Stalin, just give your opinion and support it. You may show someone where they’re wrong and thereby increase the sum total of accurate memes in the world. lol When a person protests as much and loudly as you did and accuse others as you did it usually means THAT person(meaning you) has some insecurities about the subject matter. I find the same thing when one gets into discussions with the religious zealots of all stripes.
BTW the term should be “I COULDN’T care less,” not “I COULD care less.” Think about it, if you can’t care any less then you are the rock bottom of being concerned about something. See, knowledge has been increased in this discussion. take care
Wayne said,
January 12, 2007 @ 04:39
I found this posting to very interesting. I’ve lived in several states and several countries including Japan and i found that it doesn’t matter about race, women date who they like. White, Black, Spanish, European, doesn’t matter, if thats what she’s into, then thats who shes going to be looking for to date. Also Lee most people say “I could care less” it kinda like being sarcastic, your more likely to hear it said that way then the other, even if its the correct way of saying it.
Lee said,
January 12, 2007 @ 13:54
Wayne, I agree with you that women date who they like, of course, and so do men. I have dated women from many nationalities and races. But my only intention in that earlier post was to analyze something that others here seem to have also seen and offer possible explanations (speculation, two-cents worth, whatever) When one analyzes and tries to describe a phenomenon, one has to generalize, that’s the nature of knowledge and the tools we have. I never said any of my speculations or musings apply to all asian women, or all japanese women. Most things are not universal (we all know about death and taxes, blah blah blah) For example, if the US economy is said to be in a downturn, that doesn’t mean that all 50 states and D.C. are necessarily experiencing a downturn, but the economy in general is. You see my very obvious point here.
And as far as the ‘couldn’t care less’, ‘could care less thing’, I know it’s a sarcastic statement, but I was just pointing out the correct way to say the sarcastic statement. I appreciate when people point out to me that I’m using a word incorrectly or misstating a saying, quote or phrase. (I also want someone to tell me if I have something hanging from my nose or on my teeth) Just because many people use that phrase incorrectly is not a good reason to follow the trend of incorrect usage. I thought I was being helpful.
Delboy said,
January 13, 2007 @ 13:50
Lee I am back to respond to your comments on my earlier postings. You might be surprised to hear that most of what you said I agree with. Maybe being born in the UK of Ashanti decent means I come from a privilage point of view that gives me a skewed view of the world and black history. If you are a great black historian as you proclaim to be then you will know Ashanti history too. Don’t get me wrong there is plenty of problems in Africa and with African people self inflicted and imposed. Like the the fact the British company BP is taking oil and money out of Nigeria and that Cigarette companies are targeting African countries and increasing sales becuase those countries just because they can and don’t care.
You are clearly an intelligent man, but the problem with America and Americans is that ignorance is independant of intelligence because America is such an insular bubble society. Of course I know that there are loads of highly intelligent, intellectual successful African Americans that are great role models, but you need to get a passport and see black people outside of America before you talk. I’ve been all round the world and seen black people across 5 continents (North America, South America, Europe, Africa and Australia) and the common denominator was hip-hop culture. Whether you or me like it or not this is the predominate culture among black people in the world. Most of the people I met in Paris, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Sydney, Rio, Lima, New York, Las Vegas, Accra, Lagos, Tunsia, St Lucia, Kingston either don’t know or care who Rice and Jesse Jackson are, but know Jay-Z. You can talk about the origins of hip-hop, but last time I checked all the most successful hip-hop artists are African American.
What I was saying was American society is very different to other societies around the world especially UK society that is just as multi-racial. In America black people start from a lower position than minority groups because of history, like you said black people have in American nearly since the begining. In Britain Black people are just another minority group because they chose to move there. It always makes me laugh when I here African Americans proclaim that America is the best place to be black in. I been to America many times and what shocks me about America is the levels proverty and racism that open exists compared to Britain especially compared to London. The poorest people in Britain are middle class by American standards. Like I said the American Dream is the British reality because healthcare is free and education is very cheap so if I want to make bucks I can get an education then move to make loads of bucks like my brother, then again I don’t like living in a country where white people have blatantly prejudice attitudes. You cannot deny this but there is even an attitude amongst some African Americans that being educated so how makes you a white wanna be and this was completely shocking and alien to me as a black person born in England because race is an everyday issue for Americans, but as a Londoner it isn’t. This illustrated the manipulation of African Americans in American society.
I had a friend I grew up with and he was a mathematical genius and could workout any formular in a split second. He could of been a Scientist or worked for NASA or something like that with his mind, something to make a real big difference. But he loved American culture and wanted to be a hip-hop due to this influence. He was uncsuccessful and now sales cars for a living, which is just such a waste of a great mind. Hip-hop culture might be your ticket out of proverty if you are from a deep south project, but I have seen too many middle class black people born outside the bubble of the USA be seduced and lower themselves to that level when they have far more potential to achieve things in life. I do like Hip-hop music to a point, but it is like KFC Chicken, easy to devour, but essentially unhealthy.
Lee you seemed to think the African views towards African Americans and other non-generational black people I posted in a earlier post were my own views. These are not my own views just an illustration of an attitude that exist amongst Africans. I like you feel this attitude is snobbish and unkind, but it is this attitude that has insulated Africans in Britain from the American media projection of black people through TV.
Although black people have been in the UK for well over 400 years, a big wave of black came to Britain in the 1950s. Most were Caribbean and some where west African, but of the generations that came later only West Africans in government statistics are performing well academically. In fact gangster hip-hop influenced gun crime has increased greatly suddenly in Britain in the last 10 years. 95% of gun black crime in London is committed by a person of Caribbean origin depsite West Africans being the largest black group in Britain. Statistic show that if you are black of a West African family you are 20 times more likely to go to college (university) than a black person of another nationality. If you did not like my explanation then what would you substitute if for?
Anyway this is the longest digression in history.
Walter if you love your Asian ladies then I suggest you save your money and fly to Thailand. You got Thai, Japanese, Korean, Chinese and half Thai-arab girls too. It will be like heaven for you.
Walter said,
January 14, 2007 @ 01:46
Well guys good discussion. I wonder what Asian girls are thinking now if they were to see this forum.
Lee said,
January 14, 2007 @ 08:17
Delboy, I was tempted not to respond because your post was a bit disjointed(typos?), rambling and, I have to say, rather puerile in its logic. In responding I feel like I’m about to beat up a high school kid. But a couple points…
I don’t profess to be a great historian. I’m just a common man, with common sense, who reads and observes with a discerning eye. You desribed yourself as snobbish because of your descent from the ashanti kingdom from the past, now vanquished. Well, based on your statement it seems you would feel that I as an american, whose country is history’s only truly global superpower that essentially now controls the world, would be justified in being snobbish. I don’t feel that way and I am not snobbish. Snobbery is a defect of character. Although as a youth I was told to be proud of the ashanti queen mother asantewa as a rep of black history, as an adult I see her as a hero for everyone, black, white, yellow, brown… whoever is against imperialism or colonialism. I would say the same of michael collins and the irish resistance (although I am against violence and terrorism). No need to be snobbish or selfish about one’s cultural past.
I think the real issue is that you are probably young, if not chronologically then mentally -or better yet-experientially. I’m not trying to be mean. You don’t seem to be as observing and discerning as you probably think you are. As an analogy, I would say that The Matrix has you.
You(and many others, including in my country) have been made a slave for your mind. Not for electricity but for a different type of power: acquiescense and docility to the ideas dictated to you. But the real trick is that you think you’re thinking for yourself and drawing your own conclusions. I have observed blacks in several other countries. Why would you conclude that I don’t have a passport, because I’m american, or black american? (To quote Public Enemy, ‘don’t believe the hype’) I’ve also observed them in the US. What I have found in my travels is that hip hop culture predominates among the youth. And I bet this is what you saw too if you think about it. When you understand the march of history and culture, it could be no other way. In an earlier post I mentioned that hip hop culture shows similarites to american rock and roll (and other americana). Rock and roll started as a music of the youth, of rebellion, and of irreverence. (It also got its start from black american blues btw) Trashing of hotel rooms, drinking, drugging, sex… all these things alarmed the adult population and the arbiters of the nation’s culture back then. It was called depraved and a danger to the stability of society. (You had similar feelings in your country, even before Sid Vicious, rude boy culture, etc) Look at how internationally pervasive that music of the young and it’s behaviors became without the internet, or pervasive satellite communication, or cell phones, or text messaging, or MTV. Now look at the latest culture and music of the youth to arise in america: hip hop (rapping is one aspect of hip hop culture). It has gone global and captured the youth because of the unprecedented technological integration of the world today. But… and this is a big but… the record companies dictate the form of rap that is marketed and becomes popular internationally. Currently gangster rap, dirty south, etc is the thing, with all its misogyny and degradation of women. The youth eats up this “bad boy” music. It’s in the record companies’ interest to market this stuff as a true representaive of blacks, and to put out the idea that most blacks are into the “street culture.” The important thing for you to know is that this marketing is also directed at american youth too, both black and white. So not only do international youth vicariously live out this dictated fantasy, but so do american youth. Incidentally, the overwhelming majority of rap music bought in the US is bought by white kids. Also, don’t forget Eminem. As I mentioned earlier, America was syncretic in its formation and it remains it’s nature. Just as George Bush or Bill Clinton wouldn’t be called English-Americans, but just Americans, don’t be fooled by the Afro part of Afro-American. What comes out of the black population is uniquely american and comes with all the american baggage and history. l tell you, as I’ve told other black youth i’ve come in contact with here and in other parts of the world, free your mind of the propaganda, don’t believe the hype. It can be hard work. And too many youth give in to the fantasy world of being a rapper or basketball player. You’re right, most of those (kids) in those countries you mentioned don’t care about Jesse Jackson or Condoleeza Rice. But they should. And so should those over here. Just because you observed that the state of awareness of these people is bad is no reason to accept that state. Changing it takes work on the part of those of us who are aware of what’s going on. That’s adult work. Can you take up the challenge to free yourself of these misconceptions and then teach another?
The last time I checked the statistics a couple of years ago, those in Britain living in povery was about 17% of the population, US poverty was about 12-13% of our population. Children living in poverty in US and Britain were about the same at roughly 20% of children. Apalling stats for these two majoor industrialized countries to have. Also, the percentage of blacks below the poverty line in US was about 22-23%, so close to 80% of black americans are not in poverty. But the media focuses not only on that 22%, but a small portion of that 22% that is involved in crime, drugs, etc. Studies have repeatedly shown that the majority of poor people in US have a higher rate of committment to ethical behavior than higher income americans. But that small percentage of the 22% is what’s focused on in the media (they love the bad stories, the murders, etc) and broadcast across the world. Remember, poverty is not only defined in terms of income, although that is important. Better housing in Britain for the poor should not blind you to the very real problem of poverty in Britain, both among adults and children.
A discerning mind would know that recent immigrants to a country necessarily do better than those from the past. It’s called the immigrant drive and is observed in the US as well. That’s a very well known phenomenon in sociology (and no I’m not a sociologist). It’s no mistery. Recent immigrants come with better education, resources and drive (it’s inherent in the decision to emigrate from one’s home country). There’s nothing special or unexpected about the fact that recent west african immigrants are doing well in britain. You didn’t think it was something genetic, did you?
I have much respect for for Britain, especially its population which stood up so bravely to it’s government during the protests against the war. Britain is part of my history, being responsible for my country’s political institutions. Britain’s Fabian socialist history continues to provide a social safety net for it’s people, despite Thatcherism and the social rollbacks under Blairism in his attempts to seemingly follow the path of the US. But isn’t it interesing to you that despite is racialist history that the US has had more blacks high up in national government than Britain, as Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Assistant Attorney Generals, and many members of Congress although only two or three have been Senators since Reconstruction. I consider this US government history to have taken too long and to be only a start. But I believe you’ve only had Oona King in the Parliament(who recently lost to George Galloway, a carpetbagger to her district) and one other black guy in the past in parliament who’s name I can’t rember, in addition to that one black woman who was in the Blair government. Also, there’s no National Front in this country. The KKK are an anachronistic joke in US.
Sorry, that was more than a couple points, wasn’t it?
Lee said,
January 14, 2007 @ 09:51
Delboy, I should add that the cesspool that is rap music today will not last. It will be gone, sooner rather than later, and replaced by a different rap, hopefully more innovative and enjoyable. Something asians, europeans and africans can enjoy and that americans can be proud to say they helped give to the world. And hopefully the youth and others in those countries, and this one, will know, or be taught, to make the connection that this is the same culture that spawned Jimi Hendrix, Ophrah Winfrey, Jesse Jackson, Condoleeza Rice, Muddy Waters, Martin Luther King, Jr.,John Lee Hooker and James Brown.